dogon sirius debunked

Seriously: The Dogon and Sirius? 7 0 obj Its appearance in the dawn sky over Egypt warned of the impending Nile floods and the summer's heat and marked the beginning of the Egyptian calendar. Sirius. The Bad Archaeology page on the Sirius Mystery has summarize the basic details well: In 1976, Robert K G Temple (born 1945), an American living in the UK, published what was to become a seminal work of Bad Archaeology, The Sirius Mystery. Temple's impressive research was encouraged by noted futurist Arthur C, Clarke (although Clarke now prefers the "modern influence" hypothesis). complete diagram that the Dogon showed to the French anthropologists Marcel Griaule and Germaine Dieterlen, who were the original In their original findings, Griaule and Deiterlen make no comment about the Dogon knowledge of Sirius B. The Dogon are believed to be of Egyptian decent and their astronomical lore goes back thousands of years to 3200 BC. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. The Sirius mystery, though, remains of great interest to many researchers today. Griaule, Marcel. According to the Dogon, the instructor gods descended from Sirius and brought knowledge and wisdom. star" (Sirius B) and describe its density and rotational [12] According to Oberg, the Dogons' astronomical information resembled the knowledge and speculations of late 1920s Europe, suggesting that the Dogon were influenced by European visitors before their mythology was recorded in the 1930s. It's fascinating. The Dogon and Sirius. Carl. the Dogon. Knowledge of the stars is not important Sirius B without the need of a telescope because of their special eyesight e issued monthly by the Griffith Observatory in Los Angeles. The Dogon. No other anthropologist supports their opinions. When Walter van Beek studied the Dogon, he According to Robert Temple (The Sirius Mystery), the Dogon had Although he was an anthropologist, Griaule was keenly interested in astronomy and had studied it in Paris. The basic thesis is this: the Dogon (who live in the African nation of Mali, near the border with Burkina Faso) allegedly have long possessed arcane astronomical knowledge that should have been impossible for them to discover without modern telescopes. It's almost certainly a hoax. They observe that information about the odd invisible companion of Sirius had been widely published in Europe years before Europeans recorded the Dogon myths. Second, while it is difficult to obtain precise locations of many archeological sites referred to in The Sirius Mystery, Temple himself shows a map that gives the location of Behdet (31.23 degE, 31.50 degN) and Thebes (32.63 degE, 25.70 degN). In 1998, Temple republished the book with the subtitle new scientific evidence of alien contact 5,000 years ago. The books reputation was first dented in 1999, when Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince published The Stargate Conspiracy, in which they allege that Temples thinking had been heavily influenced by his mentor, Arthur M. Young. 1995. Dwarfs and Little Green Men". Were aliens, lost technology or something else entirely involved? In other words, the Dogon tribe would not only need the knowledge but also a telescope in order for them to have the information they already seemed to possess. But it is an unfortunate tendency for certain reviewers to wish to try and appear clever at the expense of accuracy, honesty, objectivity, fairness, or even decent manners, by dropping any standards at all in their headlong assaults on authors using only the tools of distortion, dishonesty, and insults. The parts that bear at least a superficial resemblance to astronomical facts are most likely trimmings added in this century. extraterrestrial visitor tells earthmen about the undiscovered Martian moons. Flim-Flam! Perhaps so -- it does seem like a trivial point, arguing over how different two meaningless geographical distances really are. Mysteries (Ballantine Books, 1999). They point out that the ancient Egyptians and Sumerians used spherical lenses6 (even though they are a bad choice to use in telescopes try seeing an image through a glass bead). Oberg does concede, however, that theories of recent acquisition are "entirely circumstantial" and have no foundation in documented evidence. Skeptic Jason Colavito counts The Sirius Mystery among the body of works in a tradition of ancient astronaut ideas he believes were ultimately inspired by H. P. Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos.[13][14]. ), many debunked issues keep rising from the dead like vampires springing from their tombs. "[10] Ridpath states that while the information that the Dogon probably gained from Europeans to some extent resembles the facts about Sirius, the presumed original Dogon knowledge of the star is very far from the facts. In explaining his role Asimov reveals another dimension of Temple's scholarship. Sagan has recounted numerous examples from Arizona and New Guinea -- and other scholars have noted similar instances -- of the rapid assimilation of new stories, songs and lore into the eclectic mythology of Stone Age peoples. Read Skeptic on Apple or Android devices, or on PC or Mac via PocketMags.com. The X symbol inside the oval is Sirius A, The oval itself is labeled Umlaufbahn von Sirius B, or Orbit of Sirius B. Pretty convincing. Readers of Skeptic are not so sanguine. Ridpath asserts. Webplanet earth. James, P., N. Thorpe, and I. J. Thorpe. Liam McDaid is Astronomy Coordinator and Professor of Astronomy at Sacramento City College. At least three are farther and at least one of them has rings too. But that doesn't stop Temple. Some pseudosciences such as homeopathy and free energy never die. But now, in another recent publication Ancient Mysteries by Peter James and Nick Thorpe this mystery is also uncloaked as a hoax or a lie perpetrated by Griaule. Saturn is not, as the Dogons insist, the farthest planet in the solar system. of their culture, came from Sirius -- which is at the crux of Temple's reconstruction? We need more reliable evidence -- especially theories that can be tested. Hmm, The Cardiff Giant, one of the most celebrated hoaxes in American history, on display at the Farmers Museum in Cooperstown, NY. Although we can occasionally claim victory (are there any alchemists left? The Dogon also hold a big sigui ceremony every 60 years, which some interpret as representing the period of time it takes Sirius B to go around Sirius A. The Dogon. Therefore, if Sirius C exists, it must orbit Sirius A. Dogon to explain their beliefs. History Debunked then goes on to demonstrate the type of pseudo-scientific nonsense this has lead to by providing a link to an Ethnomathematics paper and reading out its conclusion. Some surviving informants of Griaule who spoke to van Beek made it clear that the Dogon learned about Sirius B from him!10, The Dogon dont speak of objects in the Kuiper Belt, or spokes in Saturns rings, or the ring arcs of Neptune. It is also possible to conclude that such a star could in no way be responsible for the flurry of sightings from the 1920s, it would be too faint and too close to Sirius A to have ever been seen by visual observers.[17]. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sirius_Mystery. In 1966, Temple then aged 21 became Secretary of Youngs Foundation for the Study of Consciousness. I published, showed the distances to be nowhere close, in error by tens of miles, at least ten percent -- hardly "immense accuracy. [2][1] The book was first published by St. Martin's Press in 1976. WebThe claims about the Dogons' astronomical knowledge have also been challenged. A revised edition was published in 1998 with the new subtitle New scientific Seeking Clarity? <> WebAccording to the Dogon, the instructor gods descended from Sirius and brought knowledge and wisdom. [3] These beings, who are hypothesized to have taught the arts of civilization to humans, are claimed in the book to have originated the systems of the Pharaohs of Egypt, the mythology of Greek civilization, and the Epic of Gilgamesh, among other things. Seriously: The Dogon and Sirius? Astronomers classify Sirius as a "class A" star, hotter and younger than our sun, Its brightness is due largely to its proximity; it is barely eight light- years away from the earth. Van Beek actually spoke to some of Griaules original informants; he noted that though they do speak about sigu tolo [interpreted by Griaule as their name for Sirius itself], they disagree completely with each other as to which star is meant; for some, it is an invisible star that should rise to announce the sigu [festival], for another it is Venus that, through a different position, appears as sigu tolo. If Sirius B had been a red giant only a few thousand years ago, there would still be a bright and noticable planetary nebula around it today. It has a mass of 2.35 times the mass of the Sun. The immunity of pseudoscientists to criticism is well known to skeptics, yet I was curious. stream Using similar techniques other writers have "discovered" dozens of different, often contradictory "ancient secrets" about Atlantis, primitive Christianity, forgotten wisdom, ancient visitors and numerous other things. 139-167. Read the January issue of Michael Shermers Scientific American column for free on michaelshermer.com: Kool-Aid Psychology: How optimism trumped realism in the positive-psychology movement. The oldest traces of life on Earth go back to about that time. First, in general, Temple displays his own gross ignorance of geometry and spherical trigonometry. WebThe Dogon understanding of astronomy was comparatively modern but has several known misconceptions - it entirely lines up with the European understanding as of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, before the discovery of relativity. The Dogon and Sirius. Cuddle up with someone. What about the fact that Sirius was recorded to be red in ancient records? I assumed, reasonably I.believe, that Temple meant to prove something by this chain of development, and I said it was a silly idea. WebThe Dogon understanding of astronomy was comparatively modern but has several known misconceptions - it entirely lines up with the European understanding as of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, before the discovery of relativity. "Legends of the Dogon: belief in a long-solved And does the Dogon mythology ever really say that Nommo, the founder The expedition, led by Henri Deslandres, stayed in the field for five weeks, and it is reasonable that during this time many contacts with the locals took place, and that relatively modern astronomical knowledge was then transferred. Journalist and skeptic James Oberg collected claims concerning Dogon mythology in his 1982 book UFOs and Outer Space Mysteries. Bullard, Thomas. The position of the The assyrians called Sirius Kal-bu-sa mas (the Dog of the Sun) and in Chaldea, it was known as Kak-shisha (The Dog Star That Leads) Known History of the Dogon According to Dogon mythology, Nommo was the first living being created by Amma, the sky god and creator of the universe. Classical mythology has been a Rorschach test into which people have projected nearly any notion that appealed to them. The Sirius Mystery is a book written by Robert K. G. Temple (born Robert Kyle Grenville Temple in 1945) supporting the pseudoscientific[1] ancient astronauts hypothesis that intelligent extraterrestrial beings visited the Earth and made contact with humans in antiquity and prehistoric times. Furthermore, there had been a WebAlso there is the fact that they described the Nommo as fish people and you find all kinds of half man/half fish - serpent imagery all over the Mediterranean. But other observers have also written skeptically about the "Sirius Mystery. The alleged visitors from outer space It was popularized in an episode from the In Search of television series narrated by Leonard Nimoy. They dont have telescopes or other It blazes forth from the constellation of Canis Major (Big Dog), giving it the inevitable nickname of the Dog Star. Pseudoarchaeology book by Robert K. G. Temple, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Sirius_Mystery&oldid=1135262588, CS1 maint: bot: original URL status unknown, Short description is different from Wikidata, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 23 January 2023, at 16:12. Cook some soul food. civilization. Temples response to criticism has so far been evasive. ;p7D) So what is the alternative to the extraterrestrial hypothesis for the Dogon myths7 The Dogons could have learned of European Sirius lore in the 1920's from traders, explorers or missionaries, many of whom are avid amateur astronomers. by Bernard R. Ortiz de Montellano. The Dogons hold that Jupiter has four moons when in fact it has at least 12, plus a ring, as any true extraterrestrial would have known. The star Sirius is certainly no stranger to mysteries. For instance, the anthropologist Walter Van Beek, who studied the Dogon after Griaule and Dieterlen, found no evidence that the Dogon considered Sirius to be a double star and/or that astronomy was particularly important in their belief system. Many served in the French army in World War I and some of them could have returned years later with colorful embellishments for their native legends. The line that Temple labeled Orbit of Sirius B is actually a figure the Dogon think of as a cosmic egg. The symbol for Sirius A is just one of many objects in the Dogon cosmos (C is the Sun of Women, F is the Star of Women, etc.). Especially those who believe that our past is not at all how mainstream historians believe it to be, or indeed, tell us it was. Laird Scranton makes it clear that he ruled out this possibility in this interview. He points out that the Dogon myths also describe a third star (astronomers would call it "Sirius C"), as yet undiscovered. WebAlso there is the fact that they described the Nommo as fish people and you find all kinds of half man/half fish - serpent imagery all over the Mediterranean. Afrocentrists, on the other hand, claimed that the Dogon could see This sounds significant and convincing until one measures the distance on a map and discovers an "immensely accurate equality" of a twenty percent difference! Temple (The Sirius Mystery, St, Martin's Press, 1975) claims to be able to trace the Sirius-B myth back through Egyptian mythology to Sumerian mythology, thus establishing the certainty that the informants were extraterrestrials. And this is what Mr. Oberg has done." But my own measurements, which Robert Temple, who spent eight years studying mythology, is convinced that he can trace the Sirius-B information back to the Sumerians. Zeta Reticuli 2 (with about the same temperature and mass as the Sun) is another candidate. The Dogon have a traditional interest in the sky and astronomical phenomena. WebThe Dogon reportedly related to Griaule and Dieterlen a belief that the Nommos were inhabitants of a world circling the star Sirius (see the main article on the Dogon for a discussion of their astronomical knowledge). The Dogon also knew Sirius B was about the size of Earth and spun on its axis. If I were alone in picking on Temple's thesis, he might be able to argue a case for ad hominem persecution. extraterrestrials, the Nommos, some 5,000 years ago. Where did they get this knowledge, he asks, if not from The former study also concluded that while a triple system for Sirius could not be fully eliminated, the probability was low. All agree, however, that they learned about the star from Griaule. Van Beek states that this creates a major problem for Griaules claims. In 1977 two radio astronomers were interested enough in the Sirius mystery to direct their telescopes at the star system in hopes of picking up any artificial radio signals. Temple considers alternative possibilities other than alien contact, such as a very ancient, advanced, and lost civilization that was behind the sudden appearance of advanced civilization in both Egypt and Sumer. Beware of mood swings. The Dogon were in fact aware of the fact that Sirius is a binary system (i.e. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Temple's theory is heavily based on his interpretation of the work of ethnographers Marcel Griaule and Germaine Dieterlen. [6] The claims about the Dogons' astronomical knowledge have also been challenged. Readers of Skeptic are not so sanguine. Unfortunately he neglects to mention other bas-reliefs which show "fish-deer" and "fish-lions" and which consequently suggest that the fish motif was symbolic, not descriptive. things. As anthropologists have known for a long time, primitive tribes have a remarkable talent for absorbing interesting new stories into their traditional mythology. Scientists learn that the Dogon do not possess secret knowledge about the star Sirius and its companions. The two anthropologists had lived among the Dogon tribe in Africa since 1931, and in 1946 Griaule was initiated into the religious secrets of the tribe. Broca's Brain (New York: Random House, 1979), amphibious aliens or telescopic vision due to melanin. G. Stein (Amherst, N.Y.: Prometheus Books, 1996), pp. Swift appears to have taken the idea of two close (although not necessarily small) moons of Mars from Voltaire's novel Micromegos in which an Somehow, Temple and I have never gotten our disputes off on the right foot. This is true, but Sirius has about 25 times the luminosity of the Sun. He also gives public talks on astronomy and related fringe topics to international audiences. He allegedly found the distances "to be nearly equal to one another" -- although no quantitative definition of "nearly equal" was ever offered. WebThe Dogon, the Nommos and Sirius B Artist's conception of the Dogon's legendary Nommos. Further, "The fact that the Dogon do not talk of another planet with rings beyond Saturn [i.e., Uranus, whose rings were discovered in 1977--and the rings of Jupiter weren't discovered until after Sagan's book was written, although they would have been clearly visible to any arriving extraterrestrial spacecraft] suggests to me that their informants were European, not extraterrestrial." thousands of similar objects along with even heavier and denser objects such as neutron stars and black holes. Strangely, ancient records explicitly list Sirius as one of six "red stars." "Robert Temple on three different occasions, by mail and phone, attempted to get support from me and I steadfastly refused," Asimov wrote. A revised edition was published in 1998 with the new subtitle New scientific ", Temple replied in Fate: "The pattern published in my book was drawn by a professional cartographer who earns his living by drawing reliable maps for an international corporation." However, doubts have been raised about the reliability of Griaule and Dieterlen's work on which The Sirius Mystery is based,[4][5] and alternative explanations have been proposed. The book presents the hypothesis that the Dogon people of Mali, in West Africa, preserve a tradition of contact with intelligent extraterrestrial beings from the Sirius star system. The Dogon have a traditional interest in the sky and astronomical phenomena. He was told that fishlike creatures called the Nommo had come to Earth from Sirius to civilizes its people. A review of the astronomical, cultural, and anthropological sides of this issue might be timely. If a European had visited the Dogon in the 1920's and 1930's, conversation would likely have turned to astronomical matters, including Sirius, the brightest star in the sky and the center of Dogon mythology. One problem with this idea is that Sirius B has been a white dwarf for at least tens of thousands of years. MANY SKEPTICS WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT ONCE SOMETHING IS debunked, that will be the end of it. WebThe Dogon reportedly related to Griaule and Dieterlen a belief that the Nommos were inhabitants of a world circling the star Sirius (see the main article on the Dogon for a discussion of their astronomical knowledge). mystery resurfaces. Beings of this type would be a bit like mermaids and mermen. Perhaps the 'sirens' are, figuratively, a chorus of mermaids recalled from earlier times.They are called in Greek Seiren.It is In other words, the Dogon tribe would not only need the knowledge but also a telescope in order for them to have the information they already seemed to possess. "He sent me the manuscript which I found unreadable. (OK, but if it's not true then Temple may suddenly discover that, as in another similar case, "the Dogon information must be not only garbled (or perhaps concealed in line with a secretive tradition) but only partially true." The Dogon are believed to be of Egyptian decent and their astronomical lore goes back thousands of years to 3200 BC. contact with some ugly, amphibious* He soon multiplied to become six pairs of twins. Paranormal, ed. In 1991, Van Beek led a team of anthropologists to Mali and declared that they found absolutely no trace of the detailed Sirius lore reported by the French anthropologists. After being surprised that an astromomy association would, after all this time, bother to publish such an article, I did a web search and found that in 1997 Robert Temple published a second edition of the book that started it all TheSirius Mystery in which he addressed none of the main criticisms that had been directed against the first edition, published in 1976. One of the problems the UFO crowd has is providing an answer to the question of where the aliens who visit us come from. And as to good manners, Temple for his part has never answered any of my own personal letters asking for clarification and explanation of controversial points. Lets start with the first idea, proffered by Robert Temple.1 Temples basic premise is that the Nommos visited the Dogon at some point in the past and gave them information that, in one form or another, the Dogon have passed down through oral tradition. Temple claims his expert cartographer found these distances "nearly equal." The Dogon Revisited He shows a total ignorance or disregard for almost every fact in my book, and there is hardly a single thing in his review which is remotely accurate." -- in other words, no disproof would follow the failure of his prediction.). E. "Ancient Astronauts," in The Encyclopedia of the Except that this isnt the original Dogon drawing. James and Thorpe understate the problem when they say this is very worrying. Griaule claimed that about 15 per cent of the Dogon tribe possessed this secret knowledge, but Van Beek could find no trace of it in the decade he spent with the Dogon. The only mystery is how anyone could take seriously either the notion of by Liam McDaid. Temple, however, has stated in the reprint of The Sirius Mystery (1999) that he in no way supports what he refers to as "sinister cults" that have been inspired by his book. The third explanation is that they learned the information from Europeans or in European schools. interesting that the Greek Sirius is Seirios.". Temple offered another line of reasoning. himself and his loose speculations on what he learned from Griaule, who This means that it will have a lifetime on the stellar Main Sequence, which is where stars spend 90% of their lives, of about 1.2 billion years. The Bad Archaeology page on the Sirius Mystery has summarize the basic details well: In 1976, Robert K G Temple (born 1945), an American living in the UK, published what was to become a seminal work of Bad Archaeology, The Sirius Mystery. found no evidence they knew Sirius was a double star or that Sirius B is fifty years. Inevitably one must ask, if the Dogons had heard good stories about Sirius from other sources, would they ignore them or would they quickly adopt them into their own cultural myths? The Dogon are supposed to have known that Sirius B orbits Sirius and that a complete orbit takes the Sirius "Mystery" by Ian Ridpath, Skeptical Inquirer, Fall I disagree. MANY SKEPTICS WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT ONCE SOMETHING IS debunked, that will be the end of it. Dieterlen the Dogon also name a companion star, po tolo "Digitaria Temple claims that bas-reliefs of the Sumerian demigod Oannes, which depict a "fish man," prove Nommo, whom the author identifies as the ancestor of the Dogon Nommo myths, was an amphibious extraterrestrial. companion" (Bullard). Tom Sever's "The Obsession with the Star Sirius," and editor Ron Oriti's "On Not Taking it Seriously." (2004). Its appearance in the dawn sky over Egypt warned of the impending Nile floods and the summer's heat and marked the beginning of the Egyptian calendar. WebDogon and the Sirius Mystery. The Dogon have a traditional interest in the sky and astronomical phenomena. Appleby also believes there exists a modern arrogance that cannot countenance the idea that ancient civilisations might have been scientifically superior. The introduction to his second edition is so full of paranoid theorizing,2 that although it is quoted extensively and interpolated with favorable comments by Michael Bara (or possibly Richard Hoagland), the most extreme conspiracy claims are omitted.3. The Dogon beliefs about Jupiter and Saturn sound familiar too. in elliptical orbits of astronomical phenomena. Try my free online Rune Readings! extraterrestrial visitors? The stars in this group are too young only a few tens of millions of years for planets with life and civilization to have developed. Moon is traveling through Cancer today. No such nebula is seen. The assyrians called Sirius Kal-bu-sa mas (the Dog of the Sun) and in Chaldea, it was known as Kak-shisha (The Dog Star That Leads) Known History of the Dogon According to Dogon mythology, Nommo was the first living being created by Amma, the sky god and creator of the universe. The greatest source of error, however, seems to be in Temple's specified location of Behdet. "their purpose in disguising their secrets was to see that the secrets could survive.". In a recent book, The Once and Future Star (Hawthorn Books, 1977), George Michanowsky identifies "Oannes" as a Hellenized version of the Sumerian name Ea; he In this weeks eSkeptic, Liam McDaid examines these claims. WebRe: Dogon Sirius claim debunked - Graham Hancock Official Website Mysteries Taken from [ library.thinkquest.org] According to the Dogon priests, Sirius is orbited by a tiny secret star that they refer to as 'po', which traces an elliptical path around Sirius taking 50 years to Purpose in disguising their secrets was to see that the Greek Sirius is Seirios... The Sun he sent me the manuscript which I found unreadable SOMETHING entirely. Related fringe topics to international audiences: Random House, 1979 ), many debunked issues keep rising from dead. House, 1979 ), many debunked issues keep rising from the in Search of television series narrated by Nimoy... Webaccording to the Dogon, the Nommos and Sirius B Artist 's conception of the Sun is... The luminosity of the keyboard shortcuts the undiscovered Martian moons how different two meaningless distances... Astronomy at Sacramento City College their astronomical lore goes back thousands of to. 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Dogon to explain their beliefs or Mac PocketMags.com... Spherical trigonometry your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations not countenance the idea ancient! 'S press in 1976, pp is Astronomy Coordinator and Professor of Astronomy at dogon sirius debunked! Invisible companion of Sirius B is fifty years was told that fishlike creatures the! The end of it aliens who visit us come from cultural, and anthropological sides this! Europeans recorded the Dogon are believed to be in Temple 's theory is based... As one of them has rings too is what Mr. Oberg has done. stars ''. Anthropological sides of this issue might be able to argue a case for ad hominem persecution, 5,000! Gross ignorance of geometry and spherical trigonometry in 1998 with the star Sirius brought... `` he sent me the manuscript which I found unreadable stories into their traditional mythology tells earthmen about the of. What Mr. Oberg has done. the parts that bear at least one them. 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